In the last 2 years, we’ve visited 14 countries and over 100 cities, many of them multiple times. While the nomadic life has specific challenges, I’m also coming to terms that I need an attitude adjustment when it comes to long-term travel.
Mindset
Most people traveling on holiday have a very limited time period in which they have to soak up everything possible before it’s time to leave and return to their normal life. Even people doing a yearlong round-the-world (RTW) trip, find themselves feeling the urgency of getting in as many places as they can and seeing everything possible.
When you’re traveling indefinitely, though, that sense of urgency isn’t quite there. Usually our only deadline is the length of stay granted by the country to US citizens.
I find it curious that after two years I still sometimes struggle with giving myself permission to stay in our room for a better part of the day. Tigger is generally always okay with having a lazy day or a “chillax day” while I want to get out and see things.
Bangkok’s heat has been helpful to me in that regard as we simply have no desire to be roasted and steam cooked all day long. When we were visiting friends in Malaysia, I sometimes felt bad for staying in the apartment day after day instead of going out and doing sightseeing. But Tigger was having so much fun having other kids to play with, I didn’t feel as bad. Plus, Penang just doesn’t have that many “must-sees.”
Often, I have to remind myself that we’re aren’t just on vacation. This is our life. in our life back in the States, we had weekends and other times to relax at home. We weren’t on the go as long as the sun was up. Just because we’re traveling doesn’t mean we have to get out of the room and explore for hours every single day.
It’s okay to go and visit the mall for a few hours and come home and call it a day. Even if that means we may miss out on seeing something. And, generally speaking, we can always come back. Just because we’ve been to Spain once doesn’t mean we can’t go back and explore more.
That’s the beauty of indefinite travel.
Travel fatigue
At the onset of our journey, we moved a bit slowly. We left in May 2011 and by the end of July we found ourselves in Utila, Honduras. We stayed on that small Caribbean island for 8 months. We left there for South America and found our brief stay in Cuenca, Ecuador to stretch out to 6 weeks. Then a business opportunity appeared, and we were back in Mexico for just over 3 months.
We finally left that hemisphere and headed to Europe, but we were traveling for only a few weeks before we were unpacking our suitcases for our 2-month housesit on a Moroccan oasis. Since arriving in Thailand at the end of January, we’ve been bouncing around quite a bit, though. We’ve had some stays that were so short we didn’t even bother unpacking our bags.
And I’m getting worn out from it.
The current problem was caused by Air Asia. They happen to run these wonderful airfare sales, and I fell for them big time. This is why we’ve been moving a lot more quickly than we’re used to, and definitely faster than we like. We love to get into an area, find a place of our own, and park it for a while so we can get to know the area, the locals, the culture, the hidden spots, etc.
It’s so much harder to do that when you’re only in a town for a week at most.
So much so that we are tempted to skip our month-long trip to Vietnam later this week. As much as I’m interested in going to Vietnam, I’m just wanting to stay in our own place for at least a few weeks. Had I not already paid for visas and for our 1st few nights in Hanoi, as well as a cooking class, I’d seriously consider just losing the airfare and staying in Thailand longer.
It isn’t a reflection on either country. We just don’t like this type of faster travel.
Lesson learned. No matter how tempting some of those sales may be, they just may not be worth it. Since those airfare deals do happen to pop up frequently, we can avail ourselves of cheaper airfare while staying in an area longer like we enjoy. Just because they’re selling fares to 20 different countries doesn’t mean I have to try and visit them all in the next 4 months!
Thankfully, we have housesits in Australia and New Zealand coming up in a couple of months. This will allow us time to slow things down again.
I’m looking forward to that.
Onset of nostalgia
One of the hazards of long-term travel is falling in love with so many places. It’s a nice problem to have, though. Especially since we can always return to an area to explore it further and to discover if we still love it as much as the first time. We’ve had at least one place drop off our list of long-term bases after staying a second time.
If I could afford Paris long term, it would be high on my list. I’m still kind of working on that one, though. At the same time I’m missing Latin America a lot. I don’t know if it’s the culture or the fact that I could communicate more easily with people there.
I miss being able to sit down with the lady cooking our street food and discovering more about her life, her dreams, etc. I could do that in Central and South America because I speak Spanish. In France and Morocco, my French was improving to the point where I could understand more of those stories. My Thai, however, hasn’t progressed much beyond the niceties of greetings, saying thank you, and asking “Pork?”
My heart yearns to be able to do that again. For me, so much of the fun of travel is being exposed to the deeper sides of culture and other people’s lives. Smiles are powerful, but they can only take you so far when it comes to discovering a person’s story.
When we came to Asia, I was convinced we would end up calling this place home. But now I’m not so sure.
I love Malaysia, Thailand, and the Philippines. I’m sure I’ll find other countries here I love equally or more, but I have a profound need to interact with locals better.
Time will tell.
Thankfully, our ability to do long-term travel also means we’re not up against any deadline to find “home.” I love that freedom.
What are your experiences?
May 13, 2013
I can totally relate, Talon! I also know what you mean about missing the ability to communicate and connect with the locals. It just isn’t the same when you can’t converse with them in a shared language…and it does make make me miss Latin America, too!
May 13, 2013
Sure makes the experience so much more interesting and richer!
April 29, 2013
I don’t travel as long as you do. My max was 70 days in one stretch. Still, I prefer slow travel too. I don’t keep a list of must things to see and go around only when I feel like it. My ideal way to travel is to stay at least 2 weeks in a city or place. I’m location independent, so I can see myself doing that. Unlike you, however, I can’t do it indefinitely and all over the world. I’m very much limited by my passport! #bitter LOL
April 29, 2013
I think faster is fine if you only have 1-2 weeks, or if you’re up against a tight schedule (like an RTWer who sees this as perhaps their only chance to see a great portion of the world). But for anything else, it just needs to be slower. We gain SO much more by doing that. Especially since we like to really absorb an area and experience its culture.
It is DEFINITELY nice to have a US passport.
April 27, 2013
I love this; you’re traveling the way you want to, and that makes you happy. It makes me happy to think about that.
April 27, 2013
Only way to live in my book! Life is too short. 🙂
April 25, 2013
For me, it was never about RTW Travel. I knew that having a homebase, moving slowly from place to place and really delving into a different lifestyle was more important for me. My first year abroad was a marathon of trying to see as much as possible, just in case I left and never came back. It left me penniless and without the satisfaction I thought I’d get from traveling throughout Europe.
And it’s your life (and your business!). Don’t feel bad about staying in or not running around in the heat!!
April 27, 2013
Ditto for us. It isn’t about RTW travel. It’s more about the experiences, connecting with different cultures, etc. Definitely need to slow it back down. It was starting to lose some of its enjoyment.
April 25, 2013
Wonderfully put, Talon. Yes, I’m so happy you said the thing all travellers know but don’t want to admit: that it’s OK not to go out every day and “do stuff”, especially when it’s your life that you’ve taken travelling. I love those lazy days; I look forward to them even!
I can totally understand your problem with the Air Asia deals. I would be the sucker who buys them all up in advance and then regrets it later, bemoaning the fact that I really don’t want to travel so quickly to all these places. But what a great problem to have! Best of luck finding your flow in Thailand, and housesitting in the antipodes later this year. Looking forward to hearing how that works out for you two!
April 25, 2013
It is such a tough temptation to override. Writing this was very cathartic for me, though. The last 2 days we barely left our room. LOL I figured we’re coming to Vietnam, a whole new country, so I’m going to want to get out there. So we took a couple of days to recharge, and I don’t feel about it at all. LOL
Now we’re in Hanoi, and I’m VERY glad I had those rest days because I feel like I’m almost on another planet.
April 25, 2013
Talon, I feel your fatigue. We have had days when we never left our flat, and it felt soooo indulgent! The temptation to see EVERYTHING when in a new place is so great. . . “we’re only a 1-hour plane ride from Singapore. . . we’ve just GOT to go!”. Michael and I have developed an unofficial system where we decide we need “fire-breaks”–a few weeks or months when we just “live” somewhere. It has the effect of recharging our batteries enough so we’re ready to travel for a while again.
You needn’t feel guilty about not “seeing” everything. . . you’re actually “living” in these in these places, which beats just seeing stuff any day 🙂
April 25, 2013
I definitely agree! And it’s the day-to-day experiences we remember more than the “sights” most of the time anyway.
April 24, 2013
I think so many people can relate to this. I’m not an infinite traveler like you guys, but its completely fine to just do nothing once in a while when traveling. Otherwise, I think you’re just pushing yourself and not really enjoying the thing you’re pushing yourself to do, you know?
My travel confession on this topic is that the first time I went to Lisbon, I stayed the first few days in my hotel, watching bad America tv. I had been traveling for weeks solo and just wanted to do nothin! It was great…
April 24, 2013
I can’t blame you. It’s true you sometimes just need that wind down. Good on you for taking it!
April 24, 2013
Very interesting thoughts in this post Talon!
We have been traveling in the past at a faster paste than we would have wanted to like you said, we are now taking our time when we can to take in as much as we can of the places we visit, to get to know the locals, to integrate in the culture and I have to admit it does make a difference.
I couldn’t agree more with you!
Happy traveling 🙂
April 24, 2013
It’s SO much nicer and more enjoyable.
April 24, 2013
We are only three months into our indefinite travel and have only really stayed in two places. We spent about 4 days in two other spots on our way into the countries, but I do find myself wishing I could have stayed longer. Getting to know the people and what makes them unique in their part of the world has been so fun and caused lots of self revelation. We only spent 7 weeks in spain, but I could have spent a year. It wasn’t until we made it to ireland that I started slowing down. I still am working on getting over the “go, go, go” mindset that you have for short trips. Living somewhere is much more fun and interesting than visiting for a couple days.
April 24, 2013
Isn’t it a bit surprising how difficult it can be to switch out of that “go, go, go” mentality?
April 23, 2013
I think we might have just missed each other. I was also in Bangkok for Songkran. Would have loved to have met you. I completely agree with everything you said. I love slow travel and just did the exact opposite doing a rtw trip in one month….I’m still trying to recover. Wish I would have spent more time with locals in just one place. I will on my next travels.
April 23, 2013
We were in Ayutthaya, but came back to BKK on the 16th. Songkran was super fun there!
April 23, 2013
love this. because really, what we do with our own lives (and days) is our own choice. slow travel is smart – hope you can find rest in your next place! 🙂
April 23, 2013
We won’t have a lot of rest for a couple of months, but we will slow things down as much as we can. It will mean we see less of a couple of countries, but I’d rather see more deeply than see a lot of superficial anyway. 🙂
April 23, 2013
Goodness Talon, as a nearly 2 yr. vet of slow travel (an expat in Vietnam, but 8 countries isn’t exactly sedentary) I can relate to ever so much in your post.
But I must say… not come to Vietnam??? Nonsense my good man, utter poppycock!
You simply MUST come to Vietnam, and when you do… you might just land here in my beloved cooool, greeeen Dalat (indeed, the antitheses of sultry Bangkok) and… find that it’s where you want to hang out for a goodly, slow while.
April 23, 2013
If we hadn’t already laid out so much money, we would likely postpone and do it another time. But since we have, we’ll be coming. 🙂 Unfortunately, no matter how wonderful Da Lat is, though, we won’t be able to stay very long.
April 23, 2013
Well timed post, Talon!
For a couple weeks now I’ve been soooo curious, just dying to ask you why you’ve been jumping around SE Asia so dag quickly… Just a couple weeks in each country, visiting just 2-3 places, and then zoom on to the next country…
No judgement or criticism, just pure curiousity. I’ve been on the verge of writing to ask you why you’ve decided to hop around like this rather than spend a long 2-3 months slowly moving through one country at a time. I was thinking, after all, it’s not like you’re on a deadline…
Now I understand more clearly what you meant by answering my previous Q ‘Air Asia’. :))
HOpe you enjoy a nice, slow visit through Vietnam. It’s a cool country. cheers, Lash
April 23, 2013
Yep! That’s pretty much why. We did leave Malaysia earlier than needed because Tigger wanted to experience songkran. But otherwise we’ve been popping around rapidly because I took advantage of the sales. We have almost a month in Vietnam, almost a month in Indonesia, and almost a month in Australia. The latter was longer than planned only because we got a housesit. Otherwise, the expense of that country was going to mean maybe a week before we had to get out of there. I just don’t have that kind of budget. We’ll have at least 6 weeks in NZ, though, which will be really nice, and I’m trying to extend that. After that we plan on moving more slowly again. We tried this rapid stuff, and neither of us likes it. Slow is more our style for sure.
April 23, 2013
I’ve been travelling fast for the past 6 months and now I’m back “home” in Indonesia. I have just not felt like doing anything for weeks! I think that’s OK too. Travelling fast is extremely demanding and you really do need a break sometimes.
Where in Australia are you staying?
April 23, 2013
Yes, I completely agree. We need those down times.
We’re in Sydney for a couple of days before doing our housesit in Ballarat.
April 23, 2013
I think Scott would feel the same way as you if we traveled long term. He has this insatiable need to see everything. I personally don’t have any problem chilling in the hotel room — even on a short trip. Maybe I’m just lazy. 🙂
April 23, 2013
Well, laziness has its place, too. 🙂
April 23, 2013
It certainly helps with communication and immersion when you can talk to people, and that’s a big reason why South America is so attractive, as you only have to learn one language to visit half the continent, and another one for the other half.
As for indefinite travel, I think it’s important to break up the routine sometimes. Live somewhere for a month, go backpacking for a month, volunteer for a few weeks, or whatever. Sightseeing all day, especially after a few months continuously, can be pretty draining. Take some breaks.
April 23, 2013
Normally we’re okay with doing a few hours a day of exploration. I think also being in hotels a lot when we’re used to having an apartment or renting a room in someone’s home is affecting that as well. It’s harder to feel “at home” when you don’t have a kitchen, a place to sit, etc. Little things add up when you’re doing it long term.
April 23, 2013
Yes! Yes and yes! I totally agree… The more we travel, the more we want from our travel experience… the more we refine and define it. Fast travel doesn’t taste good anymore and tires us quickly… We want the connexion and to get the connexion, we need time (and yes, language is a big one! But if you spend enough time, it gets easier, of course…). I love Italy. I would go back in a minute if I could afford it.
We struggled a lot to create relationships with locals in Costa Rica last year (we were in the same place for 5 months) and we did not succeed… Even with expats it was hard… It is interesting to hear it was not your experience… I love talking with people (I am a connexion junkie!! I LOVE connecting and talking!) and this is what I find the hardest when moving a lot. However, sometimes, you just have the most beautiful one-time encouter with people that stays with you forever!
April 23, 2013
Those encounters are definite treasures.
I’m not sure why we’ve had an easier time connecting with locals. I think it may have to do with my previous work as a chaplain. I’ve developed an inviting presence that encourages people to share and talk with me. I think they sense my genuine interest in their story. Or not. *shrugs* I’m not entirely sure, but I love it when it happens. 🙂
April 23, 2013
I like your point about the difficulty of interacting with locals in Malaysia and Thailand — expat/traveller communities do tend to be very non-local. And, yes, chillaxing IS good.
Another point — you’re also working on the road. So you’re not just on vacation.
April 23, 2013
It was a bit easier in Malaysia since so many of them speak a decent amount of English. In Thailand it’s really hard for me because I see so much of daily life, so many faces that look like they have amazing stories to tell, and I can’t access ANY of it. While expats and travelers have stories, too, it just isn’t the same for me.
VERY good point! I’ve been in some situations where people who are on holiday or doing a one-year RTW have commented regarding how much time I’m on the computer. Yeah, because I’m working. Travel is our LIFE. This isn’t a gap year. And since I don’t have a trust fund or a sugar daddy, I gotta work.
April 23, 2013
Great post, with a lot of familiar feelings. I’m not travelling full-time at the moment so the pressure to see and do everything is even greater when you have a limited time. I’m currently road-tripping around the SW USA and had to resist the temptation to be driving hundreds of miles and changing destinations every day. I know I’ll enjoy it more to take it a bit slower and relax, maybe I won’t see as much as I can but it’s better than coming home burnt out and exhausted and barely remembering each place!
April 23, 2013
Definitely true! And really the memories we hold dearest aren’t so much certain sights but experiences. I still miss my Moroccan food vendors. Yeah, we went to Marrakech, and it was memorable, but what was even more memorable was our experience of living surrounded by locals and our day-to-day life there. Sure, we visited the Eiffel Tower in Paris, but that was memorable to me because it was the closing of a circle that began 7 years ago. Once again, it was the experience and not the site.
April 23, 2013
I remember cycling into New York City and staying with friends there. They were flabbergasted that we didn’t leave the house until 11 in the morning, and then spent the whole day just at the Museum of Natural History. And we only saw ONE floor in the museum!! Usually, when they have house guests, they hit the ground running and try to pack in all the sights – we didn’t even try.
When you’re traveling long-term, you need to find a pace that works for you. If you don’t find that, you get burned out big time.
April 23, 2013
Most definitely! It’s all about balance. Hmm, so many life lessons that applies to, no? 🙂
April 23, 2013
I hear ya! These continents, like Asia and Europe, where the countries are closer together and flights are so darn cheap really make it tempting to ditch the idea of slow travel and just gobble up as much of them as you can. I agree with Mary – head to Vietnam and then slow down. Australia and New Zealand are a lot less easy to flit around in (longer distances, larger expenses) so you’ll have a chance to cool your jets for a few months.
April 23, 2013
Seriously! With everything so close together you just want to try to fit it all in. Oz and NZ will be good since we’ll be housesitting. Will be nice to have a kitchen again, too.
April 23, 2013
Great post Talon. I’m looking forward to seeing how I like being away for long stretches. Since I’m not very interested in *attractions* I’m usually ok with allowing myself to have lazy days. I think making myself go do/see stuff is more my problem!
April 23, 2013
LOL! Too funny. I generally like a mix. We go out for a few hours a day to explore generally, and I’m okay with that. It’s when I’m somewhere new and want to just park it in the room for a day or 2 that I start to feel a bit weird. I think staying in mostly hotels this time has also affected that. Normally we get an apartment or rent a room in someone’s home. For some reason that changes thing mentally for me.
April 23, 2013
Talon my friend. We all need and require a bit of down time, although we all have a tendency to keep at it until our bodies tell us to slow down. You are giving Tigger an education of the world, in person and think of his memories when he matures. I guarantee, no matter where you live, or for how long, he will always love you for what you are giving him. Slow down and smell the roses mi amigo and know that we all have to rest occassionally at some time or another and refuel our bodies. Take it easy for a while, regenerate and get back in the sadlle! Of course my vote would be South America, specifiaclly Cuenca. That way we can see each other often in a couple of years when I make the transition! Safe Travels and Saludos!
April 23, 2013
Yep, that’s what we’re doing. I just personally found it interesting how I almost felt guilty for not getting out and being a tourist. Have to remind myself this is my life, not holiday. It’s OK to stay at “home” and chill. I don’t HAVE to see everything.
S America is BIG on my list. I would LOVE Ecuador, but they make it so difficult (as in expensive) to stay longer which bums me out because it would probably be my 1st choice otherwise.
April 22, 2013
We are already taking care to balance slow travel and seeing everything we want to see…. and we haven’t even left yet! We have decided to do a pretty fast pace three weeks for the beginning of our journey since we will have a young traveler tagging along and she wants to “see everything!” Once we put her on her plane back to NY, we are planning several months in a Central American country to be determined. I have the sense that open ended traveling will be really helpful in allowing us to slow down and dig deeper into the area we find ourselves in.
April 23, 2013
Having it open ended makes it SO much easier! Definitely the way to go if you can do it.
April 22, 2013
When we were planning our new perpetual travel life we made the decision to go slow and Im so glad we did. thre was a part of me that wanted to run around seeings as much as I could as quick as I could but then I realized I would never truly experience the place doing it like that. So we travel slow and steady and its wonderful. I never get tired or exhausted and I feel like I am REALLY seeing each place we go to.
There are time between house sits where we have a week in a place so we cram as much in as possible but they are rare occasions and we usually have a months to reenergize! I think finding the balance is the key. Not every place we visit I want to stay in longer than a few days or a week so its ok to travel through them quickly as long as its not happening all the time… Thats way to exhausting!
April 23, 2013
Most definitely! When we arrived in Medellin, we had planned on staying for at least a month. We quickly discovered it just wasn’t the place for us, so we were out of there. Sometimes we get to a place we REALLY like and want to stay longer. Normally it isn’t a problem. This more rapid travel, though, doesn’t accommodate that. No likey!
April 22, 2013
Oh Talon, you have touched a nerve here. When we started planning our year-long trip, the four of us all agreed that we did not want to just go an see the sights; we wanted to go slowly and get to know more of the culture. So what did we do? The first four months we moved every 3 to 6 days. And we were exhausted. And we rarely had a down day. if we did, it was a schoolwork day. we had to remind ourselves of the need for a day of doing nothing every now and then. We’re going to end our year with three one-month stays in South America, and I can’t wait! Added bonus: we won’t have to spend every night planning our next move.
April 23, 2013
That sounds absolutely exhausting! So glad you’ll be able to do a trip at a much slower pace next time.
April 22, 2013
I didn’t know you speak Spanish! You can read my blog then (I’m translating it but it’s mainly in Spanish) 🙂
April 23, 2013
Cool! I’ve considered doing a Spanish blog, but I have enough irons in the fire right now. 🙂
April 22, 2013
A great post for the day for us – we have hit the one week mark here in Cuenca (we are staying a month). There is so much to see and do but we are like you over there, there is a language barrier. Fortunately we have a lot of expat friends to help and we’ve found the locals are so good about teaching us new words.
We are evaluating a permanent (well, at least 5 years) move here and were talking about how this visit will still never truly emulate living here. But we love it so far.A
Sounds like Australia and New Zealand will provide a welcome break – those folks have such an amazing zest for living life to the fullest.
April 23, 2013
Cuenca is great. We really enjoyed it there and could’ve stayed there longer. I can completely understand why people pick that place to be expats.
April 22, 2013
Great post! It took us a few months before we realized the same things. Slower travel is best for us, I think for sanity you need more down days. If Penang taught me one thing it was to slow down and be OK with doing nothing. Although admittedly that has gotten very old. I guess the key is to find a happy medium. We are now at looing to stay places arpund 3-6 months at a time but time will tell if that plan works or not!
My advice is to go to Vietnam, enjoy it and then slow down! We never made it there and I am still bummed especialy as we arec now leaving Asia!
April 23, 2013
I think we’re going to find a spot to stay a bit longer. We won’t see as much of the country as I’d like, but nothing says we can’t go back later.
A happy medium is best for sure. Too much down time in the same spot is boring. Too fast and it’s exhausting.
Guess you’ll have to come back. 🙂
April 22, 2013
This was very insightful for me. Ken and I will soon be location independent and i want to slow travel. This will make absolutely certain, that I don’t fall for cheap airfare deals 🙂 I want to see everything, but I don’t want to rush it.
April 23, 2013
You definitely don’t want to rush it. It stinks!
April 22, 2013
A couple of thoughts to mull over….my mother got the travel gene. My grandparents were always travelers even going to Africa in the 1960’s. My family are ranchers/farmers so being gone a long time was difficult for my father. My mother’s idea of a vacation was to see as much as possible…so much so, I began to use the phrase ‘its just another pile of rocks’. We would have to come home to rest.
Fast forward…our idea of a vacation is to do one thing a day and read and cook and relax the remainder. Not to have breakfast at 7:30, on a bus by 8:30, etc. We don’t see everything there is to see and that is fine with me. We get somewhere and stick. i just tire of going going going. And hot places really drain your energy. I think that is why many of them have quite the nightlife and the locals sleep during the day.
I think the days Tigger spent playing with the kids and enjoying songkran will always be memorable. I would have tired from looking at all the statues (more and more rocks). I think he is a real trooper not to have balked at some point.
So that is how i look at it through trips as a kid and how that impacted how we travel now. When beautiful important sites turn into another pile of rocks it is time to slow my pace….stop and talk to people. I think that is why i became so interested in your ventures…you lived among the locals, you shop and eat among the locals…you became a local. And that is memorable. Not when there are so many things to see that you forget exactly which was which and where were we…..
April 23, 2013
We communicate openly, so when he’s tired of something he lets me know. We talk about the plans for the next day. Sometimes I’m on my own, sometimes he comes along even if he isn’t thrilled. We also compromise. We may do something I really want to one day, then the next is his day, even if that’s just sitting in the room. So it works. 🙂
April 22, 2013
the journey and discovery (of both yourself AND others) is half the fun. take it as it comes, and when you don’t like it anymore — bounce!! 🙂
as for communication – don’t forget about boddddyyy language!!
April 23, 2013
Now I have Ursula in my head. Thanks a lot Brandy! LOL
April 22, 2013
I come to really like days when I just stay inside, enjoy having good wifi, and chat with friends from back home. Not every day has to be a travel day, and that’s kind of nice! With you there.
April 23, 2013
Definitely! Those days can be wonderful.